What do you want out of the tiers of play?

[D'karr]

I've spent quite a bit of time perusing through forums and mail lists and I get the distinct feel that each tier represents something more, or different to players than it does by the "classic" definition provided by WotC.

So I'd like to start getting some ideas of things people want to see/experience at each tier of play and see if we can start building on some of those ideas ourselves, instead of waiting for someone else to do it.

Here are the "classic" definitions/assumptions of each tier (DMG p. 146):

Heroic Tier (Levels 1-10): Heroes are set apart from the common man. Heroes rely on their own abilities and powers and use mundane gear. Acquisition of magic items is quick. Heroes are earthbound (no flight). Healing surges are the resource that determines the length of the adventuring day. Death, is no longer a significant obstacle towards the end of the tier. The fate of a village might hang in the balance at this tier.

Paragon Tier (Levels 11-20): Heroes have made a mark and are set well apart from the masses. Heroes are a lot more versatile and can find just the right tool for a challenge. Heroes can use magic rings, and regain limited spent powers. Short range flight and teleportation might be common place. Healing surges are not as vital as other methods of regaining combat efficiency are available. Monsters at this tier are better able to challenge these new capabilities. Rituals can become advantageous to gather information and overcome obstacles. Fate of nations or even the world might be decided by the actions of the heroes.

Epic Ties (Levels 21-30): The capabilities of the heroes are superheroic. Their adventures are the "stuff of legend". The common man can only dream of reaching these heights of power. Abilities that regain spent powers, healing without healing surges and the abilities of magic items and epic destinies are common place. Invisibility, Flight, teleportation and extraordinary feats of athletics, and acrobatics are routine. Terrain in general is less important unless it thwarts some of these abilities. Characters can even return from death in the middle of a fight. Epic adventures have far reaching consequences for millions.

So based on those assumptions, what would you like to see more of? If something is not particularly listed on these tiers of play, what else would you like to expand or introduce?

[vercingetorix]

heroic tier

[D'karr]

heroic tier

Joe, what would you like to see more of in the Heroic Tier? Is there something you find missing or that you'd like expanding in the Heroic Tier?

-Vic

[gaming tonic]

Everybody knows that epic tier is under supported when compared to the other two tiers. So without a doubt epic tier needs way more support. The new monster vault adjustments have made the tier a lot more challenging as it was not very difficult previously. The other two tiers especially heroic get a lot of support. This is probably because most campaigns start at first level so it is played the most. I would love to see a mega adventure that was well written for thirty levels of play taking the characters over all the tiers. Scales of War seemed like a monster of the week scenario but I played it and didn't run it. Anyway I digress, Epic tier, definitely.

[Darth Jerod]

For both Paragon and Epic Tier they need more adventures available. Just having monsters from the MM's and the MV's is not enough, I want some examples of encounters. I still have several levels for my group to even get that far but eventually they will.

I am sure I can figure it out like I usually do but some examples would be excellent.

Resource management and what to expect will be something my group and I will need to experience properly, I want to know just how bad it can look with spent powers and surges. Will rituals play a bigger roll in the game?

[vercingetorix]

Joe, what would you like to see more of in the Heroic Tier? Is there something you find missing or that you'd like expanding in the Heroic Tier?

-Vic

no its great. I am sorry I guess i shouldn't have responded. if it's an LFR game heroic tier is all that I play, I have learned my lesson with Paragon, and quit at level 18 so I never even tried epic. I really enjoy heroic tier, its fun, casual, and just right.

BTW: Vic I did get into some games at GenCon with generics this year, though next year I will be definately be pre registering.

[D'karr]

no its great. I am sorry I guess i shouldn't have responded. if it's an LFR game heroic tier is all that I play, I have learned my lesson with Paragon, and quit at level 18 so I never even tried epic. I really enjoy heroic tier, its fun, casual, and just right.

BTW: Vic I did get into some games at GenCon with generics this year, though next year I will be definately be pre registering.

I like heroic, actually mid-high heroic (6-10) and early-mid paragon (11-16), so I get what you're saying. Early heroic is fun because it's really challenging. Mid-high heroic is great because you start to actually get enough "mechanical" things to do that matter. Low-mid paragon is awesome because it really shows the leap forward that characters make at paragon, and it can still be made challenging without too much effort.

I'm glad to have seen you at GenCon. I was busy as all heck trying to get people seated, and we were able to seat a heck of a lot of generic tickets. So I'm glad you were able to play. I also got to meet Nai Calus, from these boards, which was great. I always like meeting gamers in real life that I've only had a chance to meet online.

[Nai_Calus]

I'm better IRL than I am on the internet.

I played in a paragon LFR adventure at Gen Con, which really reminded me of how much I like Paragon. (I even got lucky, my entire table was first time LFR-ers like me, all with freshly made L11s, so I didn't have anyone looking at me like I sucked.) I had a Paladin who had plenty of options, plenty of ways to be awesome and was a lot of fun.

Paragon to me feels like you've finally made it. You're like a L7 Wizard in 3.5. You've got the 'spell slots' to keep it going and you've got the 'spells' to make it awesome. It has that feel of 'I am a badass among badasses, the one the badasses turn to when things get rough'. High heroic has a bit of this, but I like it when your PP has finally come and you start to really get that feel of being more a mover and a shaker and less a murderous hobo.