Article: Setting Boundries

[Matt James]

You can view the page at http://www.loremaster.org/content.ph...Players-vs-DMs

[Darth Jerod]

This is interesting Matt. At the beginning of my campaign I let my players know I had run 4e less than half a dozen times and was just starting to run D&D Encounters. It was a learning experience for us all but that I also brought about two decades of game running experience to the table. I also let them know that if a rule was bad I would opt to adapt or change it. That I would make things either easier or harder depending on the experience they were having. I wanted it to be challenging but also fun. I also said, if you think a rule is being handled wrong lets discuss it. I should have a talk with my group and see if they all remember what the boundaries are for the game

[D'karr]

I've had a very successful long term gaming group, going on 15 years. For most of the campaigns that I've run, I give the players a very short (1-2 page) document that has some of this information including what races and classes are available. It seems to work most of the time, though I've found that even that can sometimes be completely overlooked.

I had a player that always wanted to go against the grain and create the "forbidden" characters. If the campaign had no gnomes or druids, he'd want to play a gnome wizard/druid. It was kind of aggravating, but after a while I started to understand that he just wanted to have a character that no one else could have. So what I started doing was looking at the restrictions and finding out why I was imposing them. For example the gnome thing was because I hate that race, but it was explained in game as an extermination by the ruling empire.

So when a player wanted to play the gnome, I could let him, he was one of just a handful of gnomes left in hiding. But he also knew that he had a big target on his back. When confronted by imperial troops he would most certainly be put to death, which did happen one time. He got what he wanted, and I go what I wanted, a dead gnome.

[Darth Jerod]

So how about changing expectations when it comes to new material? Do you also include how you will handle that? How about the second thoughts of inclusions and exclusions in the setting?

[D'karr]

So how about changing expectations when it comes to new material? Do you also include how you will handle that? How about the second thoughts of inclusions and exclusions in the setting?

I think that anything above and beyond the initial "legal" list should be evaluated on a case-by-case basis. I once played in a game that allowed ANY source for character creation, as well as equipment, etc. It was fun to be a player, but I know that the DM suffered because of that decision. You could spell B-R-O-K-E-N from a mile away when you looked at our characters.

It also depends on the game system individually. Some systems don't suffer as badly as others from additional sources. Either because the choices are self-limiting, because the system doesn't rely too much on the additional source material, the "core" material is obviously better in most respects to the additional material, or because the balance is still okay even with the additional material.

[Darth Jerod]

I think that anything above and beyond the initial "legal" list should be evaluated on a case-by-case basis. I once played in a game that allowed ANY source for character creation, as well as equipment, etc. It was fun to be a player, but I know that the DM suffered because of that decision. You could spell B-R-O-K-E-N from a mile away when you looked at our characters.

It also depends on the game system individually. Some systems don't suffer as badly as others from additional sources. Either because the choices are self-limiting, because the system doesn't rely too much on the additional source material, the "core" material is obviously better in most respects to the additional material, or because the balance is still okay even with the additional material.

I said take themes when the ones in Dragon were coming out and I was not specific (read: I did not look at a character closely) and the Warden took one from Dark Sun. Talk about over powered, he is trashing the evil in Nentir Vale!

In hindsight I would have also said no to classes from PHB3, specifically the monk. Something about a power that lets you shift your speed and basic attack everything you pass. That to me is B-R-O-K-E-N and can be seen from the next closest galaxy. Thing is I also let it slip that I was not happy with that power and the player now flaunts it when he uses it.

[D'karr]

I said take themes when the ones in Dragon were coming out and I was not specific (read: I did not look at a character closely) and the Warden took one from Dark Sun. Talk about over powered, he is trashing the evil in Nentir Vale!

In hindsight I would have also said no to classes from PHB3, specifically the monk. Something about a power that lets you shift your speed and basic attack everything you pass. That to me is B-R-O-K-E-N and can be seen from the next closest galaxy. Thing is I also let it slip that I was not happy with that power and the player now flaunts it when he uses it.

I honestly find the themes from Dark Sun to be somewhat sub-par when compared to the later ones that have come out. The ones in Dark Sun at least are "swapping" a same level power from the class for one from the theme. The newer ones are purely additive so they are somewhat "better" for power gaming than the Dark Sun ones.

Personally I haven't found any class/race combo in 4e to be so overwhelmingly overpowered that I would ban it outright. Then again the game I played in before, that had all sources as legal, showed me how truly broken things could be in some games. So 4e, with all options on, still seems somewhat tame by comparison.

[Darth Jerod]

I notice it more from the perspective of having half essentials and half phb classes. I like everything so far but the Monk and I really can not wait to see the new Monk build in an upcoming Dragon.