Skill Challenges

[Darth Jerod]

One of the most difficult things I find in 4e is the art of the Skill Challenge. I do not want to break the gameflow with just bluntly throwing out that it is a skill challenge. I just hate asking for skill rolls.

I would like to know how others handle the art of the skill challenge and how they start it without it being obvious.

[Matt James]

I'm on a deadline right now, but I will come back and help you out. I'm sure others have great input too.

[gomez]

The most important part of a skill challenge is to pose a solid (non combat) problem that can be tackled in various ways. It is then up to the PCs to find a way around the problem.
A few pointers:

- Make sure the situation is clear. You want the PCs to circumvent the problem, so make sure they know what goes on. I.e. when they need to scale a cliff, make sure they know how high or smooth it is.

- Make sure the players know it is a skill challenge. Most experienced layers will quickly realize this, but it can't help to point it out. This is not to break into mechanics, but t prevent people from casually rolling dice or trying out bad ideas. Failing because you roll bad is one thing, failing because you didn't even know you needed to try hard is another.

- If you dislike bluntly stating it is a skill challenge, use descriptiosn that pin to teh urgency of the matter or the need not to fail. In a SC, you are often in a hurry, jave a need not to get noticed, or are undertaking something that only allows a limited amount of tries. Make sure the PCs know this, and the players are likely to draw the right conclusion.

- Allow players to come up with ideas first (short, perhaps. of the obvious ones). Nothing is worse than a DM listing all the options (in skill form) and then reading out what you do when you make the roll. I had a game recently taht run like that and I really disliked it. Initiative in a SC belongs with the PCs.

- If they are stumped, throw out suggestions, but do not mention skills yet. I.e. when they desire to open a door but have no thief, mention that it could be bashed in, or that magical rituals may work, or perhaps the PCs need to take a good look to determine if it is perhaps a magical lock.

- Once a PC proposes or considers an action, you can mention the skill (or skills, in some cases) to roll, and whether it is easy, moderate or hard.

- If a PC thinks of a power, ritual, or other way to deal with a problem, roll with it. Allow PCs to teleports over a chasm, use Silence in place of Stealth, or give gold to a beggar in order to get a success. One thing I have allowed in challenges is PCs purposefully sacrificing healing surges (rather than trying to make a Endurance skill check).
Skill is a big part, but it is not the only part.

- Try to narrate failures so that they interact with the successes of other PCs.
I.e. when they cross the Very Narrow Bridge, PCs may need to make a group balance check (i.o.w. half the PCs need succeed) in order to cross safely. When one fails, another PC may grab him - if that PC fails his Balance check as well, he threatens to be dragged under as well. A successful check may help get someone back up the bridge.
Likewise, if one PC collapses due to the poison gas in the Angry Red Room (and loses a healing surge), those who make their Endurance check can pick him up and drag him along.

- Don't get caught up in number of success/number of failures. Sometimes, PCs will succeed at a task before they actually get to the 'required' 4/6/8/whatever number of successes (this occurs especially in investigative challenges, where ). If they do, that is fine. Let them succeed. Good thinking and clever action should always trump mechanics.

- Use scenes. Breaking up a problem in small bits and assigning every scene where the PCs succeed as a success can be one way of dealing with the awkwardness of skill challenges. Simply assign a goal for a Scene and see if the PCs can get to that goal. While you generally track successes and failures of skills during a scene, you need not do it that way.
I.e. convincing the orc bouncer of the Wet Goat tavern to part with the password for the thieves guild may not be a guaranteed success. It may end with a bar fight and bruises, a drinking game and a PC passed out on the floor, or a newly made friend. Regardless, let the PCs decide what to do, do not count successes or failures of skills during the scene, and instead decide, at the end, whether the players got the password or not (depending on rp and some appropriate skill rolls). If they did, they earn a success for the overall skill challenge, if not, they didn't and need look for alternatives in a following scene.

- Finally, don't sweat it. In the end, it is just part of the story. Wing the whole bit if you need to. As long as the PCs get the task done, the adventure can continue.

[Darth Jerod]

Thanks for the response. This is kinda what I have been doing already but sometimes it feels like I am doing it wrong. The players are not complaining they are enjoying themselves immensely.

All of those points are very helpful regardless. Thanks a lot.

[4649matt]

Gomez has some really solid advice.

I have gone a slightly different route with my skill challenges, Shifting the Challenge on Skill Challenges, but the general points remain the same:

-Try to integrate the challenge into play
I prefer to put forth the situation or problem and let them go from there, rather than flatly declaring "Skill Challenge, BEGIN". If the players need prompting or the situation merits, I have the opposition roll first to kick things off.

-Be flexible
A strict interpretation of the skills will not allow skills to cover many of the circumstances that will arise. Flexible interpretations of the skills will allow creative and interesting ideas to come to the table. Ideas that involve solutions other than skills usually have a resource cost (gold, healing surges, power usage, etc), so if the players are willing to pay the cost then I allow it.

-Know when the challenge is Done
If a challenge starts to feel Done, then it's fine to make it Done. Skill Challenges, much like combat encounters, can reach a point where they start to go stale. If you feel this happening, you can still add or alter elements to liven things up or wrap up the challenge.

-Have fun
Don't stress over doing it "right", there is no "right" way to do things. If you enjoy it, your players are likely to enjoy it as well. If people enjoy it, you are running it well.

[vercingetorix]

skill challenges are garbage, i just self errata that and never use them.

they are for roll players only.

you don't need them in a home game, since you have noticed how awful they are, just don't use them, your game will be much better.

[Matt James]

skill challenges are garbage, i just self errata that and never use them.

they are for roll players only.

you don't need them in a home game, since you have noticed how awful they are, just don't use them, your game will be much better.

I'm not sure I know anyone that uses Skill Challenges, as presented, in their home games. Certainly not anyone who's replied here so far.

[gaming tonic]

I typically use a longer skill challenge rather than one that just sets up and that is what the characters do until they have either the required successes or failures. Spreading them out over several encounters typically conceals the "skill challenge" part well enough that my players don't become roll players. Weaved throughout several encounters or a running skill challenge in a combat are much more cinematic typically. You do have to keep in mind that if you put a time constraint on the challenge that eliminates the bad idea and pointless rolling. Getting your players thinking about what their characters should do because they are under pressure and the mechanics will fade to the background more. I agree with Matt that I don't know a single DM who uses the skill challenge as it is written but it is a great mechanic to get characters who aren't knowledge skill or social skill builds to get into the role-playing part of the game. That is if you create skill challenges that allow for at least the number of characters in the party +2 skills to be used in the challenge. Using that formula will force you as the DM to be more creative in your skill challenge creation. Stopping and taking the time to figure out how Endurance, Athletics, and Acrobatics might work into a skill challenge is a challenge of the DM's skills.

[Darth Jerod]

skill challenges are garbage, i just self errata that and never use them.

they are for roll players only.

you don't need them in a home game, since you have noticed how awful they are, just don't use them, your game will be much better.

We are entitled to our opinions.

---------- Post added at 08:56 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:50 PM ----------

I'm not sure I know anyone that uses Skill Challenges, as presented, in their home games. Certainly not anyone who's replied here so far.

I run Encounters, so I have to kind of stick to RAW for that. With players changing constantly outside of a few core constant players I want to give a consistent presentation for that.

In the final encounter of the Legacy of Evard I did manage to describe the situation in terms of skills in a way where one of the players said when I was done, "This sounds a lot like a skill challenge."

This is when it got me thinking, and I discussed it at the table at the time, I do not want to just say "SKILL CHALLENGE!!!" like a game show host and they start rolling skills they think they should roll.

I handle it a bit differently in my home/store campaign using a mix of the suggestions I got from here. I just wanted to see what others really do with them. I appreciate all the responses.

[vercingetorix]

I'm not sure I know anyone that uses Skill Challenges, as presented, in their home games. Certainly not anyone who's replied here so far.

exactly.

its not really a skill challenge then, and nobody uses them.

Do players in my home game make skill checks throughout the game? [rhetorical] yes, but would I call it a skill challenge over the course of many encounters? NO. Skills (or nonweapon proficiencies) have always been a part of my D&D experience, but being part of the new mechanic to reach a milestone is all that has changed.